13 FLEUR RICHARDS summary

DVCPro Tape 01 of 04 – VHS Tape 01 of 01                    01:00:43 - 01:55:11
 
Earliest memories
F. born 20 Dec 1923.  First born following mother’s two miscarriages.  Brother b. three years after F.  Family moved home when F. was two.  Lived in Hounslow, Middlesex.
 
Childhood memories
F. was born as a boy, called Billie.  F. always considered herself to be a girl. F’s parents argued about her gender.  Mother thought (Fleur) Billie should be a girl, but father thought Billie should be a boy. Father was a process engraver, who then went to war but was wounded and invalided out. 
 
Reactions to (Billie) Fleur as a child from others
F. describes incident where called a ‘sissy’. F. jumped off brother’s high chair as a reaction to this, and went to hospital with Peritonitis. F. lucky to survive.
 
School days
F. talks about her experiences as a boy at school and about being a prefect there. Talks about having the cane and the ‘duncer cap’. 
 
Birth of brother
F’s brother born and F. not happy about this. 
 
School days
F. (Billie) was left-handed but the school insisted on F. (Billie) using the right-hand.  Talks more about use of the cane in school. F. describes a good relationship with parents.
 
Boy cubs and scouts
F. (Billie) joined the cubs but wanted to be a Brownie.  F. joined the scouts, went to camp, met Lord and Lady Baden Powell.  Talks about the Gang Show and how other boys would like to dress up as girls but F. (as Billie) was too scared to do this.  F. made friends with the Patrol Leader who lived next door.
 
Learning to dance and friendships with girls
F. (Billie) went to dancing classes and met a dancing partner - Sylvia. Aged about sixteen and seventeen. Met Vera in 1939 on a holiday.  Later F.(Billie) proposed to her when F. was about eighteen. F (Billie) training to be a wireless operator.
 
Experiences in the RAF
F. (Billie) describes teasing by fellow crew members leading to incident in the RAF bunker room with a girl called Vicky. 
 
01:30:27
 
Father’s employment
F.’s father worked at Fartham’s Press then to shift work with the Daily Herald and The People so F. didn’t see father much.  Family moved to Twickenham.  During the war father also worked part-time as a look out for enemy aircraft.
 

F. (Billie) leaving school and first job
F (Billie) left school concerned about getting a good reference and got a job at Melody Maker music newspaper as an Office boy.  Mentions that Archbishop Cranmer was an ancestor on F’s mother’s side of the family.
 
Upbringing
F. did not have particularly religious upbringing but went to Sunday School at both the Baptist Church and Church of England. 
 
Leaving work at Melody Maker and outbreak of World War II
F. sacked from the job.  World War II was just beginning. F’s grandfather asked to return to London from holiday in Africa.  The following day Neville Chamberlain’s announcement of being at war with Germany announced on radio.
 
Memories of the war and joining the RAF
F. describes various aspects of the war. F joined the Training Corps of 267 Squadron.   F worked for Dunn’s (hat shop) but then joined the RAF and then got ‘call up papers’.
F. based at Hever Castle near Dunfermline, Scotland. F. sent on a course to become a Navigator.
 
F’s first experience of psychiatry 
F. (Bill) failed the Navigator’s course and as a result was sent to an RAF psychiatrist possibly to see if F. had ‘lack of moral fibre’.  As a result F. sent to Eastchurch near Sheerness, then to RAF Dice near Aberdeen, Scotland. 
 
Experiences at RAF Dice
F. describes getting drunk with the Flight Sergeant. F. working on servicing of RAF Kites.  The forces had landed on Normandy and F. posted to the Tactical Air Force despite asking to stay to train as Air Crew.  Describes bombing by V2 rockets. 
 
F. ‘s (Bill’s) marriage
F. married in 1945 just after end of the war.  F’s wife was a member of the Communist Party who F. met whilst corresponding to her at a friend’s suggestion. F’s wife was Jewish and both sets of parents not keen on them marrying because of this. Eventually F’s father accepted her.  F. then talks about her current religion as Roman Catholic. F. (Bill) eventually told (his) wife of his dilemma (Bill feeling he was a woman).
 
First admission to Psychiatric Hospital
F. (Bill) admitted to Psychiatric Hospital via the doctor in 1958, having told (his) wife that he’d been wearing her make up and clothes.
 
 
DVCPro Tape 02 of 04 – VHS Tape 01 of 01                    02:00:31 – 03:04:51
 
Experiences of psychiatric hospitals
F. (Bill) first admitted to a hospital in Stone, then to one called St. John’s.  F. and wife living in RAF Horton in Aylesbury, Bucks. 
 

F. and F’s (Bill’s) wife’s business
F. (Bill) describes how (he) and (his) wife bought a shop in Aylesbury to run as a grocery shop.  F’s wife - Jean was pregnant at time.  F. describes the running of the shop and the system of food rationing.  
F. and the Church
F. (Bill) began going to a Church and sang in the choir.  F. considered going to become an Anglican Priest, the vicar said he would finance F.(Bill) to do this. F. aged 29 years.  F. wanted to become a Catholic.  F. agreed to go to Stone Hospital after talking to his wife about his problems about (his) gender.
 
Stone Hospital
F. given hormone treatment at Stone Hospital. F. (Bill) asked to have help to become (more like a) man as (he) was married with a family.  However the Physician’s Superintendent asked F.(Billie) if he wanted to become a woman.  F. agreed.  F. given female hormone treatment to make (him) more female which caused a thrombosis and F. nearly died. F talks about various decisions made about possible surgery and drug treatment (for gender dysphoria).  F’s (Bill’s) wife began divorce proceedings when relationship began to deteriorate.
 
West Middlesex Hospital 1962
F. (Bill) went to WMH and given Tritydol (ph) treatment by a female psychiatrist.  F. describes strong effects of this drug on (his) colour vision.  F. (Bill) then given hormones to make (him) more male.  F. describes a schizophrenic experience of hearing a voice telling (him) to decide whether to be a man or a woman.  F.’s vision returned to normal and he found (himself) attracted to men which terrified him.
 
Portman Clinic
F. (Bill) went to GP as (he) though he needed psychiatric help (about attraction to men). F. referred to the Portman Clinic for one to one psychotherapy.  F. saw a psychoanalyst there every week for a year. 
 
F’s (Bill’s) decision to have surgery to become a woman
F. decided to see Professor Bahari (ph) in Cairo about surgery.  F. explains the discussions that went on, as F. wanted surgery to become a woman capable of having a baby.  F. went ahead with the surgery which was a success.  (Thereafter Bill is called Fleur)
 
 
02:20:00
 
Fleur wanting to stay in Egypt after the surgery
F. did not want to return to England as she had a boyfriend but nowhere to live. F. did return to England and stayed at the Strand Palace Hotel.  Talks of friend’s being pleased with the surgeon’s diagnosis as being a ‘mosaic female’.
 
Explanation of chromosones and gender
F. explains the combinations of chromosones in connection to her diagnosis as a mosaic female and how this affects whether a person is born male or female.
 

(Bill’s) F’s children
F. had some support from her son prior to the surgery.  When F was forty two and her son aged about eighteen the son realised that his father wanted to be a woman.  F. talks about his daughter noticing his breast during the time that he had been given female hormone treatment. 
 
F’s (Bill’s) relationship to her children
F. talks about her relationship to her children and how she always felt like a mother rather than a father to them. 
 
02:29:08
 
St. John’s Hospital
F. describes first impressions of the hospital.  An admission ward. Mentions a man who had had brain surgery who thought the hospital had tried to execute him.  F. mentions a man, who like F. (Bill) had been a Wireless Operator. who believed he was being persecuted by the BBC and F. discussing the possibility of this being a ‘real’ experience.
 
Deep Sleep Treatment
F. describes the effect deep sleep treatment had on others. F. then talks about Roberta Cole (ph) a hermaphrodite, and about how she nearly didn’t survive the hormone treatment. 
 
Springfield Hospital, Tooting Bec, London
F. says she was in and out of this hospital.
 
Royal Victoria Infirmary and LSD treatment
F. (Bill) was referred to this hospital for surgery and saw a Consultant Paediatrician.  Then F. saw an endocrinologist who referred (him) to a psychiatrist.  This psychiatrist suggested LSD, saying they’d prefer to change the mind than the body.
 
LSD experiences
F. describes the experience of being given LSD alongside psychological treatment. F. had six lots of LSD in all at different intervals. 
 
Psychiatric Unit at Claremont House, Newcastle
F. (Bill) sent her for five days a week and at weekends went back onto a ward.  F. mentions being injected with something.  F. went home, for her father’s funeral. 
 
Fleur’s father
F talks of her father having visited doctors about (him) and father being told that F. would grow out of it (desire to be female). F.’s father visited (him) in hospital.
 
Friendship with a lady and psychiatric treatments
F. talks of a special friendship she has with a lady, who had had psychoanalysis, deep insulin and modified leucotomy. F. talks about a discussion about her possibly having a brain operation, but F. actually given Barbiturates. 
 
Sublimation
F. talks about discussion (he) had with a GP about sublimation as a possible treatment. F. talks about the notion of sublimation.
The Church’s attitudes towards Fleur
F. talks about the situation of celibate Priests.  Then about a time when she met a Catholic Priest when living in Westgate-on-Sea who agreed that if F. found a Catholic man to marry that that he (the Priest) would ‘marry’ them.
 
Fleur’s relatives
F. had a grandfather who married three times.  F. had several cousins in various parts of Britain.  Cousins in Watford, who moved to Berkhamstead.  F. last saw relatives at her mother’s funeral.  F. lost contact with the family.  Also lost contact with her children.  Talks about the difficulty of losing touch with her children. 
 
Fleur’s children
F’s eldest son was initially supportive and didn’t feel his (real) mother should have divorced his father (Bill/Fleur).  F’s daughter had nightmares.  F. told that the family still love her but never want to see her again.  F. mentions being traced by the family but says they do not want to see her. F. fears her children may react violently towards her. 
 
F’s sons and daughters
F’s son thinks he last saw her in 1969. F.’s eldest son is Billy, the next son is Peter and the last born child is Janice.  F. last saw Janice at West Middlesex Psychiatric Day Hospital when F. was performing in a play there.  F. says Janice was a child then and she remembers buying her a green dress.
 
03:00:00
F’s (Bill) wife Jean
F. says Jean made it clear that she (Fleur) was not welcome. F. talks about the issues of staying together as a family (after surgery for gender-realignment).
 
Fleur’s relationships with men since the surgery
F. had a boyfriend who died some time ago.  Talks about their sexual relationship and the problems of F’s strong libido.  Then F. had a relationship with Victor but he had sexual problems.  F. talks of wanting to have a long-term stable relationship.
 
 
DVCPro Tape 03 of 04 – VHS Tape 01 of 01                    03:00:31 – 03:59:07
 
F’s work since surgery
F. did voluntary work.  Told at Springfield Hospital that she would never work again.  F. talks about the problems faced by transsexuals in getting work.  F. talks about her unhappy work history of getting sacked, and about how some people get sacked when their employer finds out they’ve been in psychiatric hospital.
 
Public reactions to fact that Fleur has been in hospital
F. talks briefly about public fears of people called schizophrenics.  Mentions a recent case where a Social Worker was killed by a male schizophrenic.
 
Violence in hospital by patients
F. talks about being attacked by a patient who was then injected by a nurse which made the patient pass out.  Talks of segregation of quiet patients from potentially violent ones.  
 
Friendships in hospital
F. talks about long-term friendship with a woman called Mavis whom F. met in 1962.  Talks of a Psychiatrist implying that this was a lesbian relationship despite the friendship starting when Fleur was called Bill.  F. says that (he) and Mavis considered marrying.
 
F. says she wishes she’d been born normal.
F. talks about the burden of being born the way she was. F. wishes she’d been born a normal girl.  Says if so, she might have married and had babies, or become a Nun.
 
Fleur’s pleasures in life
F. mentions various studies she’s enjoyed, Poetry, History and Yoga.  Talks about the family dog (Bob) and caravan.  Recalls going in 1938 to Pagham (nr. Bognor) on holiday.  Talks about other cats and a dog she had as pets. Talks of friend of father’s and him bringing F’s grandmother (Nana) to the holiday.
 
Fleur’s relationship with her brother
F. talks about being fond of her brother but also of feeling embarrassed about him being a boy.  Eventually F. lost touch with him.  F. says her brother had a nervous breakdown when he spent a week on a psychiatric ward.
 
Fleur’s relatives
F’s brother had no gender problems.  F. talks about possibility that some of her descendants will be transsexual and that possibly some of her ancestors may have been.  F’s grandmother never spoke to her about F.’s difficulties over her gender.  F. says only her parents were concerned about her gender but never consulted a psychiatrist.
 
School days
F. says that it was obvious to the boys at school that she looked like a girl and because they treated (him) like a girl.  F. enjoyed metalwork at school. F. mentions teacher who said he couldn’t box a girl’s ears (meaning F.). 
 
Separation of boys and girls at school
F. talks about the separation of boys and girls at school for most things except Sports Day.  Talks about a boy who wanted F. (Bill) to go with a particular girl and F. thought about telling the girl that he felt like she was (i.e. a girl) but F. didn’t tell her.
 
Life in the Air Force
F. felt that people in the Air Force noticed that (he) was feminine.  Says the girls wanted to seduce (him) as (he) was seen as a challenge. F. talks about incidents where a man referred to (him) as if he was a woman when (he) was working on Air Sea Rescue.  F. talks about the transmitting bay and the plotting room and further incidents where F. was referred to as if (he) was a woman.
 
Celebrations at the end of the war
F. mentions VJ day and also celebrations of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
 
03:30:36
 

Trip to Lourdes
F. talks of trip to Lourdes in 1960 to try to solve his problem.  Talks of problems sharing room with a man, as F.(Bill) had breasts. F. Talks further about the trip and about asking if it would be possible to go into the waters at Lourdes.  This was not allowed.  The Priest offered to make an appointment for F(Bill) to see an endocrinologist at St. Bartholomew’s Hospital.  The nurse there said F. should go to see a Psychiatrist for hormone treatment and surgery.
 
 
Fleur’s (Bill) visit to the psychiatrist and the Maudsley Hospital
F. sent to the Maudsley by the psychiatrist at St. Bartholomew’s.  Then sent to Bethlem Royal Hospital where Psychiatrist thought F. (Bill) was homosexual. Psychiatrist told F.(Bill) that (he) was not fit to live in society and sent F. to Springfield Hospital. The third hospital in one day that F. was sent to.
 
Springfield Hospital
F. unsure of how many times she went to Springfield Hospital but several times over a period of years.  F. talks about being sent there after (his) father’s death after his mother asked to sign a paper. F. talks about being voluntary and a sectioned patient.
 
Treatment Fleur would have preferred and drug treatment
F. says she should have been referred to an analyst.  Says she needed the Barbiturates for a time.  F. says hospital was necessary due to the state of her brain at the time. Talks of agreeing to take Largactil.  Talks about the effects and side-effects of medication.
 
Occupational Therapy
F. tells of when asked to manage the lipsticks by a male nurse.
 
Male and female separation in hospital and patient’s attitudes to Fleur
F. describes the male and female wards, and some mixed wards.  Talks of incident with a female patient who wanted to touch F’s (Bill’s) breasts. Says other patients not really bothered (about F’s gender dysphoria).
 
Hospital food
F. describes the hospital food and talks about the RAF food. 
 
Memories of hospital
F. talks about Industrial Therapy, cooking, music and the Social Club in hospital. 
 
Support for transsexuals
F. used the Samaritans, and then discovered the Beaumont Society for transsexuals and transvestites.  F. made friends with a transsexual who had also been in the RAF.
F. mentions seeing a picture of a transsexual called Christine Yorganson on a poster, whilst F. was with her family and children.
 
F’s sons and daughter
Peter was the second son.  Both sons went into the RAF.  The eldest son works for the BBC.  The daughter worked as a clerk for a while. 
 

F’s desires to bear a child
F. talks about various attempts to give her a menstrual cycle.  F. told that it would not be possible for her to bear a child. 
 
 
DVCPro Tape 04 of 04 – VHS Tape 01 of 01                    04:00:36 – 04:12:23
 
Fleur’s life now
F. talks briefly about betting on the dogs and horses.  F. gets very lonely and suicidal at times.  Says housing is a problem.  F. lives in a warden controlled house with all retired people.  F. hopes to move to Sydenham, Rusington-on-Sea or in Cliftonville. 
 
Fleur’s hopes for the future
F. hopes to find a nice man and to see her children again.  F. has an interest in history books and took various educational courses at the Adaire Educational Centre. F. also enjoys writing poetry and plays. F. hopes to be able to have a dog when she moves. 
 
Fleur’s name
F. chose her new name after seeing St.Theresa’s, ‘Little Flower’ face on a pamphlet. F. read her autobiography and felt that their lives had been similar.  Fleur called herself after this.
 
 
End of DVCPro Tape 04 of 04 – End of VHS Tape 01 of 01

 
 
INTERVIEW ENDS