06 REG COLLETT

MENTAL HEALTH TESTIMONY ARCHIVE
 
REG COLLETT

C905/06/01-01/VHS 01-01
Original on DVC-Pro
Copy on VHS
 
Interviewed by Mina Sassoon
Camera by Ken Langdown
 
Transcribed by Julie Sharman
May 1999
 

[Start of DVCPro Tape 1 – Start of VHS Tape 1]
 
`…First of all, about your childhood, and… what you can remember from… from when you were a young boy… about your family?’
 
`I don’t know about that… I think… I meant to say what happened… how I left work I think… I think I’d better scrap the children’s side… because I wouldn’t be able to remember that… I couldn’t say anything about it… see there’s nothing in it much.’
 
`Right…’
 
`Only the main things, of course…’
 
`Can you remember your parents?’
 
`Oh yes, I remember my parents, yes.’
 
`Yeah?’
 
`Mmm…’
 
`What… what did your dad do?’
 
`Umm… [pause]… well the fact is, I was… been living with my grandparents, you see…my grandparents over… same names, but my parents… I was born at Battersea you see, and then… err… I had… hmm… and then we had to move from Battersea to Landor Road… Clapham Park Road you know, then we stayed there a few months and we couldn’t stay there so we had to move to Earlsfield, see…’
 
`Ohh… right..’
 
`Yes… and err… [pause]…’
 
`What did your…?’
 
`But then of course we lived there a few years and my… my father, who was living over in Medicinal Street, which is next to… near to your Landor Road, you know, Clapham Road, and err… we were down there to see him once or twice, and he got out of work though… losing his job, at the… North London somewhere it was, you know…’
 
`So, what…?’
 
`I can’t remember now… but… yeah… but he had… he went there after a job you know, and went down there to Exeter… see if its any good down there… some advertisement I suppose, and then he got… he answered one from Newcastle, and then err… he… he got that job.  He came back and said they asked him a lot of questions, and no end of questions, and I always remember him saying that… yeah..’
 
`[inaudible]’
[both talking together]
 
`…then of course he left where we… where we were first you know, and then… went to Newcastle, and we were there about ‘till 1934, I’d say…’
 
`And you say you…’
 
`And then of course by then… I… I was inside you see… I had to leave the firm because they drove me out one evening when I couldn’t get back to the station… I… and get myself to walk round in the night, you know… so I was in an unfortunate state… and then of course the next morning, when I got home about three o’clock in the morning, ‘cause I went to bed the same morning… [inaudible]… and then.. in the… when I woke in the morning the rain [???] had opened up, see the death rain [???] had opened up you see, and of course I knew I was captured, like… [laughs].’
`So is that when you…’
 
`Then… yes… then after that we kept going different places where I was saying goodbye to… you know… Brixton and Littlehampton, and… other places… that we used… used  to go to, you know… yeah…’
 
`How…?’
 
`And umm… but then of course, after a time I had to go and see the doctor and… after three months’ grace outside, and then… err… and he said, oh, I ought to be going away to hospital, so you see of course, I was taken away to hospital, and… brought to Horton afterwards…’
 
`Right…Well, yeah, I mean it’ll be…’
 
`…by… June… June I think it was, ’34…’
 
`June 1934…yeah…?’
 
`[inaudible]… March… end of March, you see, so I had three months’ grace outside…’
 
`So that was just before the… the war?’
 
`Oh, ’34 was, yeah… yeah.’
 
`Yeah…so… I mean I was interested… you said you lived with your grandparents…?’
`Yes, that’s right, yeah…’
 
`Right… ‘cause can you remember much about that?’
 
`Well there’s nothing I can remember about it other than she used to look after me all right… [both talking together]… all of the time, you know, and…’
 
`You said you had been in Battersea…?’
 
`Battersea, yes… well that’s where I was born you see… Battersea, yes… mmm..’
 
`Can you remember what your grandad did?’
 
`Oh, he was a postman in the… in the Post Office, you know, yeah… Howick Place, Victoria… just off… Victoria Street… ’
 
`And what… you mentioned that your father went off to Newcastle to get a job…?’
 
`Oh yes, yes…’
 
`What… can you remember what job?’
 
`Oh it was in the surgical trade, it was… and I… in the Victoria Hospital I think… hospital job but in the surgical trade, you know… arms and legs and that sort of thing.’
 
`Right’
 
`He was a fitter, in actual fact, yeah… a fitter, that’s right… cos my great grandfather… he knew the trade and he… he taught him, you know, so he could get the job like  it yeah… yeah… [pause]… [inaudible]… of course, he was surprised by all this opening up, and we had to go up and see him… on the railway… you know, from King’s Cross right to Newcastle… seemed to take six hours, but I don’t whether it did or not, but… we found his house up there and… [inaudible]…’
 
`Can you remember how often you used to make that journey?’
`What, to Newcastle?’
 
`Yeah…’
 
`No… it’s the only time we got up there and…’
 
`Oh, just the once… right..’
 
`…never been up there.. yes… just the once, yeah… yeah…’
 
`How old were you at the time?’
 
`Twenty two.  Twenty two.’
 
`Twenty two…’
 
`Yeah, March, April time… went… so… yes…’
 
`So what about when you were a young boy, can you remember much about your schooling, what school you went to?’
 
`Well, I went to the Morden Road School in… and I’ve got a couple of certificates… one for Religion and one for Swimming… scrolls I think they call them… yeah…’
 
`What was your favourite…?’
 
`And two books, I think I’ve got…’
 
`Yeah?’
 
`Mmm… different excerpts from Dickens and King of the Golden River… I think it was, the two books I have left…’
 
`And what was your favourite subject?  Did you have a favourite subject, or not…?’
 
`No… I don’t… I don’t think I did, but… you know… we… learned a bit of Shakespeare and things like that, you know… mental arithmetic… no geometry or anything like… because in those days you didn’t get much of a… subjects in school, you know… compared with what they get nowadays…’
 
`Mmm’
 
`So.. yeah…’
 
`So what… what age did you leave school?’
 
`Fourteen.  Fourteen, yes… and the headmaster had gone away for a holiday or something, or left for some other reason… some session or something, and we were lined up at… July… just to leave school… and… Mr Wells took over and he… said goodbye to us, like and that… and then of course I had to find a job, and I went away for a holiday, like… down home in Essex where we came from in actual fact, and… for a fortnight I suppose it was… and then I came back and I had to think of getting a job, you know… but…when I was going… I went round with a boy named Roberts, you know… he got the same name as I’ve got like Charles Reginald instead of just Reginald… and then err… I kept on from the July right to November and… one point I think my grandmother went out and bought the papers, the Daily Telegraph or something, and I looked at it and I found the job… electrical engineer it was… I wrote… I wrote to them and I got a good reply, told me to go up to see them one day in the week, and then… he said, I’ll see what… they say, if you get me a character from your headmaster, I’ll… see what Mr Middleton says… the secretary, see… so he went up and showed him, well… and I went and got the… the, the… the character you see and then of course I took it up to him and he… he took it up to Mr Middleton, and he said I could start Monday, you see, he said it was all right. Mmm.’
 
`So you got a good reference from the school?’
 
`Yes, yes, yes…’
 
`And you were still… this is when you’d just left?’
 
`He’d come back by then… the headmaster had come back by then you see… and that was like… a few months after and…’
 
`So what was the job like?’
 
`Oh, well it was only… like… book collector and newspaper collector and… any… taking messages and… letters and things round… down the capital… Kingsway and… East and West and… everywhere… East London a bit, but… er different journeys sometimes… it was all the same thing, you know, going on errands every day for books and magazines I think… and regular week ones… yeah… so then of course I got called up to the post because somebody else had got a lift up, for another job… umm… subscribers I think it was, you know… anyway, he was there until… till late… I don’t know what the date was, it must have been about 1930 err… ‘32
I should think it was, because we found out… or heard that the… Lord Ivis (???) had taken us over, you see, and… so we were all surprised at that and didn’t know what to do about it, but… you know…anyway, we went on for a few weeks and we found out they’d got a dinner for us at the Northumberland Hotel, you know, up the Strand and that…’
 
`So…so…’
 
`All invited there…’
 
`Right… sorry…I didn’t get… quite get that bit, so another newspaper took over…?’
 
`Yes, well Lord Ivis (???) were the people who run the… The Autocar and The [inaudible], and things like that you see…’
 
`And how did you feel about that?’
 
`And… one… [both talking together] [inaudible]… used to be at Tudor Street at one time, but they moved over the… they had a new building at Sandford Street, you know, built… not… next to Sainsbury’s… Paris Garden it was… yeah… and… we got over there eventually… then the following Monday morning, I mean he said, you don’t… you won’t be coming back here after Saturday morning, he says, you’ll be… all meeting at Stanford Street in the new building, so of course we just got there the best way we could, walked there instead of rode by bus, like, over the bridge and all that… and that’s how we found where we went… the hall of clerks and I had to go in the post room, and other people went in the filing room… and one or two went in the advertising room…’
 
`But can you remember how you felt, sort of… suddenly having your job changed?’
 
`Yes, well, we thought we’d lost a lot, because there’s a lot of difference between Stanford Street and Ludgate Hill… it’s a suburban place in… just the other side of the river, yeah… yes it’s very much… and of course no buildings… once you get on to Blackfriars Road, there’s just ordinary shops, there’s no main buildings like Fleet Street, its one mass of main buildings…’
 
`So this was in 1932?’
 
`No.. no… well, we were taken over in ’32… we got through half of our dinner and that, and that’s when he said…  ’32… it was ’33… I think it was June ’33 we were going to move, and… we moved June ’33, and… and that’s how we got over there… and of course I didn’t last …[inaudible]… until the following March, you see that was about nine months there… and then ‘cause I got feared (???) away… and I didn’t get back home till the mornings, as I just said in that… yeah… and… so…’
 
`So how… how did you find the job, in 1933? Did you still enjoy it?’
 
`Oh… I… I had the same job but I’d been taken over by the rainy (???) people and I was at home and I couldn’t do anything about it. I had to have two months’ grace. I’d go to different places, and say goodbye to them, you know what I mean… Newcastle Essex… and Brixton way… where we used to live.’
 
`So is…?’
 
`But it’s… ‘cause after that it’s all inside, so… and so [inaudible] 1939, then we had to leave here and go to West Park…’
 
`Mmm’
 
`And… stayed there, …[inaudible]… the end of the war.  They knocked a few buildings down, you know, for [inaudible]… not all of them… not all the buildings…’
 
`So, what… I mean you said that you came to Horton in 1934. Can you remember the few months leading up to 1934…to your first admission here?’
 
`Yes… as I say… I was walking about with my people… riding about, going down to Littlehampton, Newcastle and places that you see… until the doctor sent me into hospital… and then of course I was in… in for life then… of course because… I didn’t know what it was about for years like… it’s such a slam bang onslaught of rain (???)… and people [inaudible] one anywhere… and a proper onslaught (???) you gotten through them, see.’
 
`So…’
 
`But we went through the wards and I got to… Fourteen Ward I think it was [inaudible]… one of the last ones, but when it was getting near the time of ’39, we got to Nine Ward, which is up this end more, you know… and it was near the middle gate, you see… so of course the… charge said `well, tomorrow boys you’ll all be going out the middle gate, going to West Park, so of course, when we got up the next morning, we got a pair of boots for each of us, a new pair of boots, and a bundle of clothes, so we just walked out the gate and walked all the way to West Park, to the Visiting Room…’
 
`And that was when…’
 
`..to the Reception Room, I should say…’
 
`That was when this hospital was evacuated during the war?’
 
`Mmm… mmm… mmm.’
 
`To take you back to when you first came to hospital, were… in 1934, just a few… you know just before the war, umm… you said that your doctor recommended you come here?’
 
`Oh yes, yes…’
 
`Yeah… I mean can you remember how you felt at the time?  I mean you said you didn’t really know what was going on, but..?’
 
`Well… in some ways I should think… because if you’re down that much, you’re already down on a serious state of affairs, like, and then of course, I sort of knew that’s what it meant, that I was going to go away from home to hospital… see, so of course, I… I just waited for them to take me there, see… that’s how I got there
 
`And can you remember… I mean were you asked… did you have a choice about it or not, or…?’
 
`Oh no, there was no choice, you went straight in… straight in the hospital, you… you found your ward and that sort of thing, and they went on with it, best way they could and… but… I was in… like… Fourteen Ward mostly. My people used to come and see me every week you know… yeah… yes, that’s how we…’
 
`Were they…?’
 
`…and then of course, by thirty… by… well… nearly after… forty four… this doctor came up and said, “Would you like to go over to ‘J’ Ward”, he said, “and see if you’d like to join the farm party?” You got a farm party going there ‘cause, you see, the war, see… forty four, it was the end of the war. So I said, “Yes, I would , Doctor,” so of course I went over there in no time.  Next morning, I joined the men who were going out on the truck you know… to Ashley Farm it was… Ashley, yes… and I went out there for the first time… a long field with all one mass of potatoes you know… and we had to keep digging these potatoes up, you know, and putting them in sacks, you know…’
 
`So…?’
 
`And I started… I got all sorts of err… places round there, different hospitals and… and doing things all in farm work, until… and we got to ‘48, June ’48, from ’44… [inaudible]… about three and a half years I think I was in the farm party… and then… err… let me see if I can remember… he said, `all… all patients back to the ward’, and down the [inaudible]… by nine o’clock tomorrow morning, so of course that was… a surprising break that was… then…’
 
`There were a lot of surprises…’
 
`…we all got down there after breakfast… got the coach back…’
 
`So, I mean when you first came into Horton, presumably they didn’t have the farm then… I mean what was it like when you first came to Horton? I mean…’
 
`Well, the farms were already here, you know, but I couldn’t do anything about the farm, you know, not until… practically after the war, then I went on the Farm parties, in with about twenty men doing that… you know…’
 
`Why… why couldn’t you do anything about the farms when you first came?’
 
`Well, too much ruction going on… too much ward work going on to get out, you know. We did a bit of ground work… I think I went out on ground work a few times, but… it didn’t seem to come to anything, you know…’
 
`Can you remember a lot about the ructions?  What kind of ructions on the wards…?’
 
`Well it was a shame (???)… the spirit that came over patients and staff and all that, that made a different life for them, you see. And they’d been living an ordinary life in 1902… [laughs]… to ’34, about thirty years, and… and they were pressed down by the spirit opening up so much… you see and they made people change their lives so much, and they [inaudible]  down so much, you know… in a certain state… they live in the same all the time you know, because they can hardly do anything else but they’re, you know [inaudible]… practically…’
 
`And how did you feel about that change?’
 
`Well… I don’t know really. We… I had to put up with it, same as the others, you know… and… [pause]… yes, and then I got back here by ‘48… they saw us in the place you know what I mean… but by ‘50… they said you go in the dormitory, so I got dormitory work to start with see… then by ‘30… June ’30, yeah… err… ‘50s I should say… I got ground parole, you see…’
 
`That was…?’
 
`…and then when I went on dormitory work, then I got town parole by ’54… February I think it was, and I started out on that… surprising to find myself outside after about twenty years… yes…’
 
`Ahh… you got a good… good…?’
 
`Well… then I had to find [inaudible] for myself on Saturday and Sunday…’
 
`You’ve got a good memory for dates… and yeah…’
 
`Mmm.’
 
`So… when… in the thirties before you were evacuated to West Park, what kind of… can you tell me a bit more about the ward, work… you mentioned… what sort of ward work was it?’
 
`Well it was just… just like a… long stay hospital ward, it wasn’t anything to do with surgery or anything like that…’
 
`Mmm’
 
`It was just ordinary… OTs… I should have said, yeah… well when I was on the dormitory… the OTs were more or less starting up and, most of our patients went to OTs, from let me see… fifty… fifty… 1950 that’s right and err… and I stayed [inaudible]… and there’s me and another man did the dormitory work while the other half dozen just sat in the ward all the time, they didn’t do anything… so you sat down in the chair, so… and there was no TV ‘till ’54…’
 
`So…the Occupational Therapist…’
 
`…oh, I think its actually ’55 because err… I know the next ward, over the way, had TV before we did, like… and… the next year we got it…’
 
`Oh, TV… sorry, I missed…’
 
`TV… yeah…’
 
`That was in the fifties?’
 
`Yeah… ’54… or ’55 ours was… ’54 for seven ward it was, and they’d got one there, and it was a surprising fact ‘cause when I looked through the window, ‘cause I heard they’d got one, I went out over the court and looked in the window and there it was… and it was… a coloured one, too… it was red and green… and… I looked at it for a time until it changed over to… to… err news… and it went black and white… it kept changing to black and white at different hours like, you know… and to… black… err, red and green, but God knows… I didn’t know anything about it, I never went and asked them what set it was or what it was or anything, but… ‘cause I couldn’t get inside the ward, yeah… and then ‘course I looked out for our one… soon… and ours was just black and white… but I don’t know how they got colour those days, though… I can’t… can’t imagine.’
 
`Colour… yeah, came in a bit later… what was life on the ward like without the television... you said you and your friends used to do work on the wards and the other patients used to sit around, I mean what… what kind of work was it?’
 
`Well, it was a life of scarcity more than anything else… you know, and perhaps you talked to one or two people, or a few people and that… it was living as life came to you, every day really, because you couldn’t do nothing else like, but, and then of course the… it… more or less the wonder of television took over you know so much. We always had three rows and… sitting there, but… it seemed to run the ward and the patients and all the [inaudible] you know, by then and… although they never wanted us to stay up more than about half past eight, which is our regular bed time, and… I wonder if they’re going to… I sat there one day and I found out they weren’t going… they all cleared off, so I… I had to go the same time, and nobody wanted to stay more than that time… was… you see [inaudible]…’
 
`It sounds like things really changed when television was introduced?’
 
`Mmm’
 
`I mean it would be great to talk about some more… about.. when you came back to Horton Hospital after West Park..’
 
`Yeah…’
 
`But… would you like to tell me a bit about when you were evacuated from Horton Hospital to West Park?’
 
`Yes, well about… I think its more likely to be…’
 
`Now you’ve talked a bit about it already, but…’
 
`More likely to be what happened after the… with the… Horton… the dormitory work, you see, well I was asked to find out what it was about mentally you see and… I couldn’t… I didn’t… was writing things down on bits of paper and… other sorts of paper, you know, what I thought I knew things were about, but it does on my town parole (???)… but I… I  didn’t get anywhere with it till… I got to about… 1970 I think when they started saying it’s… something to do with the… to do with religion… I found it was something to do with religion you see, which was forwards from the apocalypse… it turned up somehow, and I can’t remember how I got it, or what it was, but the man who came across them somewhere, and said I was pretty clever to find that…’
 
`Mmm’
 
`And… and… it’s a high up sort of thing… the next time there were… not next time, but next year… they made out on… that something was making a noise in the dormitory about the [inaudible]… making out that things were deferred, you see… and with the… the religion was deferred or something like that…’
 
`And this was in the seventies?’
 
`Seventy one… yeah…’
 
`Seventy one…?’
 
`Seventy one, yeah…exactly… and yeah…’
 
`Right…’
 
`Seventy one and err… ‘cause always that’s been made a good number of them nowadays, isn’t it… so… and the… ‘course they said it had been deferred and I found there was a Second Coming that was deferred see, so… I had to keep mum about, you know… so then I found out that there was a… stolen… supposed to be  deferred than stolen… then they were going to hand it back again I think, you know… and… the same time as now… when I found it see… I mean… and of course and… when… cos I went on with that all the time… they were telling me that, he’d got the Second Coming back… so, they made me give it back, after they’d seen [inaudible]… like, as soon as it was deferred or something… and it means you have to give it back in time, not keep it any more years than you can do…’
 
`And had you had any of these sort… sort of when you first came into hospital?’
 
`No.. no I didn’t… I didn’t know anything about it, being religion until about seventy.’
 
`Yeah.. I mean its interesting, because I was reading that… that book about Horton Hospital, and it said there was a big chapel, and… did you ever got the chapel on the grounds here?’
 
`Oh… the… the… yes, the chapel… the church is over there, yeah…’
 
`Yeah…’
 
`…it’s been done up since, too… I don’t know if they’ve got no use for it now…’
 
`What was that like when you first… can you remember what it was like when you first came?’
 
`Well I didn’t have anything to do with it at all… I had to do my own religion, you see, and take no notice of the church…’
 
`You didn’t have…?’
 
`…that’s what it really meant… so much on the concentration of it…’
 
`Right…so you had the choice to go to chapel or not?’
 
`Yes… but it was all barred… and no one asked you to or forced you to or anything…
 
`Ahhh…’
 
`Yeah… yes… well, I did recently, when… I had to go over there and see peoples’ funeral rites there and that sort of thing… you know… saw four or five people perhaps [inaudible]… yes, but umm… I had to go on to that, and I found Daniel in one of the books that one of the men brought in there, It was A Golden Million Miracles, this book was, little green book, and it… it had extracts from the Bible, and it had got Daniel in it, chapter nine verse twenty six, and of course that was the only one that was any good cos the others, they wouldn’t let me read them, they shut down on it and that’s the only one I ever read since… you know… and that was supposed to have been… well it was the right thing to know about, see… but… I kept on that dormitory work till I had some muddle with myself… by ’82 I think it was… and the doctor said, `Oh, you’re getting too old’. I was about seventy by then I think, and he said, umm… ‘You mustn’t do any more work in your time, you’ve overdone 65  already’, he said, you know, ‘You’ve got your pension,’ or something. So I had to pack it in see, and then I had to go around the… round the house (???) afterwards because I couldn’t understand the wards you see, because… and so… But then one of the staff men said one morning, he said, ‘You’d better come up and see the Over 60s,’ they… they… ‘You could be referred up there,’ so that’s how I got up there…by ’84 I think it was… about October ’84… yeah….’
 
`So…’
 
`Yes and then… ‘cause I lost my town parole, I’d lost my town parole by ’68… and I lost my dormitory work there… and so I was beginning to lose things… and the money I got for working [laughs]…’
 
`I mean… when you… did any of your… the dormitory work and work n the farm, did you get paid for that or not… I mean…?’
 
`Oh, not on the farm, only on the dormitory work… no… didn’t get anything for the farming work… only the meals, you came home and got a good dinner you know, but um…[pause]… they wouldn’t let me go anywhere else when they were going to shut the place down, they were trying to get all the patients out, you know, well people… men and women coming in to see them… about leaving the place and about… they came and saw me a dozen times, [inaudible]… but I always had to say no I mustn’t leave here… Horton, I mustn’t leave Epsom and Horton, see, and that’s how I got over here…’
Yeah… Mmm’
 
`So, I mean looking back on all the years, can you remember any treatment that you had?’
 
`No… well, I didn’t want to talk about them, because they’re none too good to know about, you know… you know about those… it’s a medical type of life… you don’t want to know that one… don’t want to know that one…’
 
`Right… I… I’d find it interesting… if you’d…let me…?’
 
`No… it’s no good… no… so… no good to talk about that… no… [pause] yeah… so that’s how I got there… [inaudible]… Of course I kept going on with the… over… over sixties until they got to ’90 and ’91 and the patients are going out by ’90 and ‘91, and… and I… I know they were asking me too, ‘cause I had to refuse them actually… and… ‘cause they all went to about… [inaudible]… and then I had to ask the sister for a ward to go to… ‘cause that’s the only thing I could think of…’
 
`Is this when you moved…?’
 
`No, I tried the Elliott ward and I found out… I read in the ward about… the… the murder in the cathedral… and things like that… and Beckett and all that… so of course I… I said can I… I don’t want to go to Elliott ward I said to her, and she said, `well, there’s another ward you can go to’, and she said Fern Ward, so I got to Fern… you know, you know for… for a year or so.  Although the sister there… directly we got there… the three of us… you got [inaudible]… she said, `well you can only stay here three years,’ she said, and [inaudible]… and err… in two or three months’ time she came back and said… yeah, they used to have meetings there… every week… one meeting a week… there was supposed to be a meeting a day… anyway, she said `Four of you have to go over The Haven, you won’t be able to stay all morning here’… so she put it right through… down to one year instead of three… so I wondered… [inaudible]…’
 
`Was that on…’
 
`And then we had to go and learn how to do some cooking over the [inaudible]… ‘
 
`Was that before you moved here?’
 
`[inaudible] [both talking together]… as a matter of fact… yeah…’
 
`Yeah… mmm’
 
`How to cook bacon and… potatoes… not potatoes, but er… sausages and… eggs and all that sort of thing… several things.’
 
`Was that…What you learned to cook?’
 
`Yes… and [inaudible]… though of course… we started doing them… I started doing them on the stove but the… it got stopped and they do all the cooking themselves now… so we don’t have to do it… ‘
 
`Right… Ohh…so… I mean… when, when… your first year sort of in… the late thirties and forties, I mean what was the food like then?’
[pause]
 
`…can you…?’
 
`Oh, then… forties…’
 
`Yeah…sort of…to have the food… has the food changed a lot do you think?’
 
`Oh.. oh, it’s… it’s.. oh, I don’t know… well I was up in the ward in the forties, with… [pause]… three slices… two slices of bread, I mean to say, two halves of bread… I should say… two half slices, you know, in a sandwich sort of thing…’
 
`And was there rationing during…?’
 
`Yes… there was a certain amount, you know, but we didn’t hardly notice it, really, but… I think we had to go [inaudible]… yes, because when we got back, they… they got more in here than we did there, you see…’
 
`What, when you got back from West Park…?’
 
`And the more years we were there, the more the kitchen was… sending up more food, because we got a… lunch at err… lunch at lunch time, with a full lunch and everything and a full lunch at six o’clock, or five o’clock, I think, in the evening…’
 
`I mean when you got back here, sort of after… the war… did you notice any improvements or changes, or not? How was…?’
 
`Oh, well it was all open doors again. Everything had been shut down, like… like it is now really, in a way, only a bit different, because it opened up by… let me see… I don’t know when it was, but… ‘48, something, or… forty… ‘47, ‘45 perhaps… but it certainly was open when we got back… there was only a few people in there… two people got down the field for a dance… but, not more than a dozen, but they gradually filled the place up over the years… in a year or two, I suppose…’
 
`You mentioned a dance, can… can… would you like to talk a bit more about… the dance?’
 
`Well, it was out in the open, on the field, you know…’
 
‘Yeah?’
 
`’Cause I was walking round, I didn’t take no notice of them, ‘cause I didn’t dance, in those days… they got on with what they could do, you see… about it… that’s how it was… yes… mmm… [pause].  Things gradually became more, you know… [pause]… I just used to do a lot of book reading and buy the newspaper in the evening and things like that, otherwise, you know… half the dormitory work, you know… ’
 
`Did you have to buy your own newspaper, or…?’
 
`Oh yes… a man used to come from Pandle Lane, I think, the… you know, Pandle Lane… and err… but they did the [inaudible]… mmm…’
 
`Shall we have a quick break?’
 
[camera: `yes, sure… yeah…]
 
`Yeah…’
 
`I’ve been coming… I’ve been over here I think … [inaudible]… I’ve been on the… twenty five years I think since ‘71, that he got here you see… ‘cause it was handed back by thieving (???) because they had to give it back, because they had to hand it back because they couldn’t keep it any longer from… giving it to the world you see… and… as  I was sitting in the chair, I was sitting there this morning… someone whispered in my ear from the sporit who said err…`they’ve been missing for ages (???)’… was that he hasn’t got it, so of course, it went off… and it lost it in no time, see… so of course, it’s… it’s all… instead of… there’s no Second Coming, it’s all back on the first one you see…’
 
`What…?’
 
`And it probably is… what it was all about, religion you see…’
 
`So when you… I mean, do you chat with the nurses about the Second Coming and religion?’
 
`Oh, well I had to tell the doctor once or twice about… you know, the… when he wanted to see me and of course the staff was there and they heard what I said, but… nobody says anything about it much because it’s so much a [inaudible] thing, you see and that’s… [inaudible]… yeah… yeah…’
 
 `How did the nurses respond?’
 
`Well, they were… umm, flabbergasted, and… [inaudible]… seeomg how vital it was, I mean to… get that… to tell them about how I’d got that you see, and… yeah… and then of course err… as I say, now, after twenty five years thinking and knowing it or saying it was, which I couldn’t disprove, and they disprove it by saying that… he hasn’t got it, see… which is a big contradiction isn’t it… the main contradiction too… ‘cause he started with the same thing and… the loudspreaker on the van said… they was [inaudible]… it meant that if you’re going to tell me the truth instead of deferring it all the time and telling me nothing much about religion… when they’re supposed to, you see… said, it would be that I’m… of course he’s not coming down, he couldn’t down here and, and… he’s never likely too and there is no Second Coming and they’re all back on the first one, so he could have told me then you see, but he made me wait fifty years… before they told me you see… yeah…’
 
`What did the doctors say about… your views?’ [both talking together]
 
`Oh, only the same thing, because you couldn’t really answer… err… a statement like that, about… religion, you know… hmmm…’
 
`Then… during the time in hospital have you ever had any pills or…medical…?’
[both talking together]
 
`Oh, I’ve been taking pills for… for a few years now… you know…’
 
`Yeah?’
 
`Yeah…’
 
`What kind?’
 
`Well… the diabetes… diabetes… so… yeah…’
 
`I mean it’s interesting, ‘cause… the year that you actually came back here, was the year that the National Health Service was… was established…’
 
`Oh yes… yes…’
 
`Did you notice any changes, because of the National Health Service?’
 
`No… well, it didn’t make any difference… the hospital went just the same, you know… and changes in doctors and things like that… but they were all about the same, you know… and check ups and that every year, and things like that…’
 
`What sort of check ups?’
 
`Well ordinary physical check ups… physical check ups… yeah, they went just the same thing, and it passed all right, you know… yeah… and… that’s how it is…’
 
`So were you offered any treatment when you were here…?’
 
`Well, err… [pause]… no, but they were going to… make out on me about an operation I think, but err, they… cast it off, you know… they wouldn’t take any notice, they were going to but they stopped doing it or something like that…’
 
`Did they talk with you about it?’
 
`Yes… yes… I had to go and see them about it, but they… it fell through so I was all right in the end.’
 
`Did you get sort of…?’
 
[both talking together]
 
`They… they decided not to…’
 
`Right… did you get something instead of the operation?’
 
`[pause] No, I don’t think so, no… they took… took no notice of it, I don’t think, but err… I had to get another pill from down the general hospital I think, to go with the one I’d got, I think… I had to go down there to see them a few times and… they said, `you’d better have one of these’, and err… it fell through, that one did, you know, after I’d been in there enough times to…’
 
`Right…’
 
`…to prove things were all right… you see…’
 
`Can you remember what… what it was, what kind of operation it was, they wanted…?’
 
`Oh, it was something to do with the stomach or something… something to do with the stomach…’
 
`Your stomach…?’
 
`Mmm’
 
`But you didn’t have the operation in the end?’
 
`No… no… no…’
 
`No…’ [pause]
 
`So can you remember the… the…hospital doctor?’
 
[pause]
 
`Oh, it doesn’t matter about that… mmm…’
 
`Is it…?’
 
`Oh well, I remember all that, oh yeah…’
 
`Yeah?’
 
`But there’s no need to say, is there… no need to say…’
 
`Well, I’d be interested in… in hearing what you remember about him?’
 
`No… no… [inaudible]… mmm… but err… it’s just the same as it was…’
 
[pause]
 
`It was interesting what you were…’
 
`Otherwise I’m just working on the things I might find out now… found out I’d got another one about… err… tell the editor, that’s what the boy, Roberts I used to go around with as a boy, leaving school and all that… and he said er, `Go and tell the editor… [inaudible]’… it seems like this boy of 14, he said to me, you see… he said `It’s a revised version’, he said, `go and tell the editor’… well it became true you know…’
 
`Yeah…’
 
`…that I should… and then I had to go to Fleet Street, Ludgate Hill on Fleet Street, and to go on… provincial papers or… daily papers as it were of course, to… err.. perhaps make out that might tell them… what he told me to do, so [inaudible]… I’d no idea what it was…’
 
`This was your friend that you used to work with?’
 
`No… I used to go to school with… he was born the same time as I was…’
 
[both talking together]
 
`Used to go…right…’
`… in 1912 and… and left in 193… err 1926… July 1926, yeah… Both 14, walking round after jobs, you know, until I got on to the gas works first and I couldn’t get a job in the gas works, and then I got a job in electrical engineering, electrical work like, you see…’
 
`It’s interesting… ‘cause you said earlier on, that you used to get a lot of visitors when you were in hospital, and…’
 
`Oh, well… [both talking together]… [inaudible]’
 
`I was wondering if your friend, Robert, was one of them?’
 
`Not in the hospital, no… only…’
 
`No…’
 
`Only… only a few in the hospital… [inaudible]…’
 
[pause]
 
`So… so…’
 
`Yes, well, I found another one the other day, well they told me that… as… as I ought to know something about the electrical industries more than ever… as it happened to be, that… Mr Alan Prestel (???)… one of the main editors, and… and… and Mr Bridge and Mr Crane was in their one, two in one room, you see… and… and Crane said to me when there was a vacancy in the editorial and err… he said, `how is he for a job in the editorial Mr Bridge, and he said `no… his… his vocabulary’s no good’, he said… he said, and… so of course I’d just left and went to the post box and get the post, and get the post and go downstairs with it and… enter it up, the same as usual you see… but I didn’t take any notice what he said, but… another man got it… right… Bray got it… Donald Bray he got the job instead. But it tells you since… what it meant was that… it had something to do with electronics in the first place… it ought to have been accelerated to 1800 instead of 1900, see… so of course that’s what I was supposed to have told him you see… so if they’d celebrated the inventions, they would have had TV in 1800 and put it straight through instead of putting it through cinemas you see… that’s what it meant, you see… and he told me that one day…’
 
`And this is doing…’
 
`…what it meant at the time…’
 
`This is the job that you had in London?’
 
`Yeah, at Ludgate Hill…’
 
`Yeah…’
 
`… just before we left for Stanford [ph] Street, yeah… mmm… [pause]… That’s another one I found and they told me and I didn’t know what it meant till I found out.
 
`Mmm… I mean you were talking earlier on about television… [phone rings in background]…how that changed… your life?’
 
`Yeah… yeah… it could have been in 1800’s if they didn’t… [inaudible] accelerate the inventions to… like wireless or TV to… to get it put through… the film through TV instead of putting them in the cinema, you see, that’s what they told me… see, if they were trying to complain about it… see…’
 
`I mean did you used to go to the cinema?’
 
`Oh yes, I had to go to the cinema… see…’
 
`Yeah… what, did you enjoy the cinema?’
 
`Well I… I… I went the same as other people come to that… you know, and err… I… had a hobby when… before I left school… doing wireless… work in actual fact making sets, like the old days, it was… they were so keen on it… in twenty six, or twenty five, it was… People’d wander up the streets, someone’d say, `Have you seen Mrs So-and-So’s TV?’ or… not TV… wireless, or… a Mrs Long or Mrs James or something like that… And there’s a… it’s a new thing you can see… wih on you know, when you go in the room… and of course I had to take it on as a hobby, and… we would have a think about it seriously… I done a bit of algebraic equations before I left the school, you know, in Seven Ward, yeah… and of course I’ve forgotten how to do it now… [laughs]…’
 
`What, equations and maths and…?’
 
`Yes… I did algebraic [inaudible]…’
 
`I mean you were talking earlier on about the farm, and work on the farm, with the potatoes…’
 
`Yes… yes… [inaudible]…’
 
`That sounds interesting…’
 
`…different sorts of crops and… we had weaving sometimes and… hoe weaving or hand weaving… [inaudible]…’
 
`Did you used to do that everyday?’
 
`No… only when it… turned up… in the weeks and you know, months and that… but err… when the crop was ready or… when planting the potatoes, when they were dug up you know, and to… put them in trucks months afterwards when they were ready to distribute them…’
 
`And did you choose to do that job, or did someone…?’
 
`Oh yes… well, the… the doctor and… decided things for me mostly, like… you know, the town parole and ground parole… and they had staff mainly came to you and said, `Would you like town parole?’, I said, `Yes’, so he said ,`I’ll get the doctor to… to sign the… you know, the card you use… the folding card (???) as it happened… and if it got signed, so it was all right.  I got it signed for the public library down there but I didn’t go down there much…’
 
`So what… what did parole mean to you?’
 
`Oh, it was… the main thing was while it lasted… ‘cause I had to leave Epsom for Kingston in the finish (??)… by 1950… 1958 or ’59 or something… was there from [fax machine in background]…from ’60 to ’68 you see… then…’
 
`Oh, right… sorry…’
 
`That’s how it went.’
 
`We’ve got… a fax… all right… [laughs] …new technology for you, hey… [laughs]…’
 
`Yes, well I don’t know what you think, because I can’t think of what more to tell you about… I think that’s about all there is, you know…’
 
`Well shall we have a little break, while the fax is coming through?’
 
[End of DVCPro Tape 1 – End of VHS Tape 1]

 
   INTERVIEW ENDS